The Hoboken Tax Reform Coalition
Voter Fraud in the Fourth Ward.
It seems that over 75 vote by mail ballots were filled out while payment of $40 was tendered.
Very troubling for all of Hoboken that there are some who just do not believe in fair elections.
Like Peter Cammarano, I hope those responsible are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The attempts to buy elections in Hoboken must end now.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Debby Schwartz on -
Can you please go into further detail? I'm not quite sure I understand "over 75 vote by mail ballots were filled out while payment of $40 was tendered" - do you mean that people paid poll workers/reps $40 to fill out a ballot? Or that $40 was included in the envelopes of over 75 mailed-in ballots? How did you find out about this?
Thanks!
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Permalink Reply by Eric Kurta on -
A list of campaign workers provided in Occhipinti's latest campaign finance filing was compared against a list from the County Board of Elections showing residents that have requested vote-by-mail ballots. Of the 79 campaign workers listed, 78 requested and returned (voted with) vote-by-mail ballots.
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Permalink Reply by Debby Schwartz on
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Ok, so not to be completely dense, but this means that Occhipinti's workers filed absentee ballots? But aren't all citizens (no matter what their job is) entitled to vote by by mail? Is there a fee to vote by mail? I guess I don't understand how the process works, but I assume that if you are a citizen of this county/state and your state allows for early voting (vote by mail, I assume) then that in itself shouldn't be illegal. Where does the $40 figure come from? Is this what the campaign workers are paid per day? Would this mean that they filled out their ballots on the job? (Is that provable or criminal?) I don't mean to grille you here, I'm just trying to understand what's happening. Its no secret that NJ politics are beyond corrupt, I just want to understand exactly what the corruption is in this case. This is extremely serious!
Thanks again!
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Permalink Reply by Dave Kaplan on
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The issue is that the Occhipinti campaign offered (and paid) individuals $40 to vote for them. Buying votes = illegal.
As far as I understand:
Voting by mail = legal.
Paying campaign workers = legal.
Paying individuals for their vote = illegal.
Offering individuals money for their vote = illegal.
There is more detail on this issue in this link, which also contains the legal document that was filed:
http://hobokenhorse.blogspot.com/2010/10/bomb-drops-on-tim-occhipin...
Debby Schwartz said:Ok, so not to be completely dense, but this means that Occhipinti's workers filed absentee ballots? But aren't all citizens (no matter what their job is) entitled to vote by by mail? Is there a fee to vote by mail? I guess I don't understand how the process works, but I assume that if you are a citizen of this county/state and your state allows for early voting (vote by mail, I assume) then that in itself shouldn't be illegal. Where does the $40 figure come from? Is this what the campaign workers are paid per day? Would this mean that they filled out their ballots on the job? (Is that provable or criminal?) I don't mean to grille you here, I'm just trying to understand what's happening. Its no secret that NJ politics are beyond corrupt, I just want to understand exactly what the corruption is in this case. This is extremely serious!
Thanks again!
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Permalink Reply by Debby Schwartz on
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I do not know this Tim Occhipinti, nor do I know a lot of what goes on in this town in terms of politics, so thank you for the link. Nice that a copy of the complaint is public, and I will read it. (FYI, I am aware that paying/offering $ for votes is illegal.)
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Permalink Reply by Hoboken Reformer on
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Court hearing today at 2 PM...
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Permalink Reply by Dave Kaplan on
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Victory for Tim. Loss for honest elections in town.
Keeping corruption alive is a huge loss for taxpayers.
Hoboken Reformer said:Judge Gallipoli of the NJ Superior Court smiles upon vote-by-mail buying:
http://hobokenhorse.blogspot.com/2010/10/breaking-judge-refuses-hea...
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Permalink Reply by Hoboken Reformer on
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John Stevens keim said:The only real voter fraud that can be proven happened in 2007. Dawn Zimmer and Chris Campos both admitted to it and instead of allowing it to go to trial they agreed to bury it so we the taxpayers could foot the bill for a third election. Had Dawn not had a real fear, she could have said to bring on the court case - the courts rarely overturn election - the burden of proof is high and the court must decide that the infractions altered the result of the election. By stepping down Dawn tacitly admitted guilt. Cammerano took an illegal campaign contribution and went to jail. Dawn cheated and got away with it.
Tim's campaign is dotting the i's and crossing the t's. We may not like "street money" but, as long as the workers' pay is not overtly tied to any sort of absentee voting they are within their rights to vote at the polling places or at the machine. No laws broken, no fouls. MSV and Hoboken Journal are within their rights to question the practice but their vigilantism is a tad extreme and seems to be targeting a certain demographic and although from some perspective looks merely like good watchdog behavior from another perspective it looks a bit like organized voter intimidation..
John, this post officially ends your time as someone who could be taken seriously! Are you kidding us, 'Tim's campaign is dotting the i's and crossing the t's'?! Is that what you call it when somebody offers $40 for vote-by-mail ballots (you must have seen the sworn affidavits by now, right)? The rest of us see what is going on as breaking the law. 'Organized voter intimidation'? We'll see about that once the official investigations by the Hudson County Board of Elections and by the NJ Attorney General are finished. Don't be surprised if some of those 'dotting the i's and crossing the t's' will get walked out of town in handcuffs, following Cammorano, your previous candidate of choice for mayor, to club fed.
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Permalink Reply by Dave Kaplan on
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John,
I can't agree with your general sentiment.
As a citizen, paying a person at or approximately at the same time as they are filling out a ballot strikes me as unethical. I'm not an expert on voter fraud law, but even to the extent that the Judge decided that there wasn't enough evidence to meet the legal standard for this act under the law, it still offends decency.
If by "dotting Is and crossing Ts" you mean not getting caught, I can't view Tim as anything near exonerated. Any unbiased person who examines the ELEC reports and the VBM ballot information will at least question what is happening. And Tims campaign has done nothing to alleviate those concerns.
I further find a number of statements that have been made by Tim or members of his team on this issue no less than disgusting. They have clearly shown they are not concerned about even appearing to desire an honest election, and that is offending to me as a citizen.
John Stevens keim said:The only real voter fraud that can be proven happened in 2007. Dawn Zimmer and Chris Campos both admitted to it and instead of allowing it to go to trial they agreed to bury it so we the taxpayers could foot the bill for a third election. Had Dawn not had a real fear, she could have said to bring on the court case - the courts rarely overturn election - the burden of proof is high and the court must decide that the infractions altered the result of the election. By stepping down Dawn tacitly admitted guilt. Cammerano took an illegal campaign contribution and went to jail. Dawn cheated and got away with it.
Tim's campaign is dotting the i's and crossing the t's. We may not like "street money" but, as long as the workers' pay is not overtly tied to any sort of absentee voting they are within their rights to vote at the polling places or at the machine. No laws broken, no fouls. MSV and Hoboken Journal are within their rights to question the practice but their vigilantism is a tad extreme and seems to be targeting a certain demographic and although from some perspective looks merely like good watchdog behavior from another perspective it looks a bit like organized voter intimidation..
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Permalink Reply by Hoboken Reformer on
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Dave Kaplan said:John,
I can't agree with your general sentiment.
As a citizen, paying a person at or approximately at the same time as they are filling out a ballot strikes me as unethical. I'm not an expert on voter fraud law, but even to the extent that the Judge decided that there wasn't enough evidence to meet the legal standard for this act under the law, it still offends decency.
If by "dotting Is and crossing Ts" you mean not getting caught, I can't view Tim as anything near exonerated. Any unbiased person who examines the ELEC reports and the VBM ballot information will at least question what is happening. And Tims campaign has done nothing to alleviate those concerns.
I further find a number of statements that have been made by Tim or members of his team on this issue no less than disgusting. They have clearly shown they are not concerned about even appearing to desire an honest election, and that is offending to me as a citizen.
It is my understanding that the judge did not decide (yet) that there wasn't enough evidence to meet the legal standard for voter fraud under the law. Instead, he "delegated" the responsibility for making such a determination to the Hudson County Board of Elections, which will meet tomorrow with the candidates and their legal entourage to sort this out. A panel consisting of 4 people (2 democrats and 2 republicans) will vote on each ballot called into question by one of the two sides. If there are at least 2 votes agreeing with the challenger, the final decision will go back to the judge. The "word on the street" is that more than 100 vote-by-mail ballots will be challenged. Stay tuned ...
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Permalink Reply by Dave Kaplan on
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Well that's exactly the point John. The people don't get to "decide which they prefer" to the extent that voter fraud has taken place.
Its clear that we disagree on this issue (and I really fail to make any connection between on one hand, your multiple comments on campaign strategy and your opinion on the 2007 election, and on the other voter fraud.... everyone who has read what you wrote here or in the past gets it: you are not a fan of any single action that Dawn Zimmer has ever taken and you are willing to attempt to stop her at all costs -- sticking to the issue being discussed is more helpful).
But this issue speaks for itself. I'm not ok with a person being paid to vote in any way shape or form, via by mail, on a machine, or otherwise. The public documents released at the minimum suggest that this has taken place. It is disgusting to me, and I frankly don't see how this is controversial at all.
John Stevens keim said:As far as obvious issues on ELEC reports, sure enough it looks like a bunch of paid workers decided to pursue their legal right to vote absentee and it also looks like Mike took a thank you contribution from a developer he got a variance for. The people get to decide which they prefer.
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Permalink Reply by Hoboken Reformer on
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unconfirmed machine totals:
4-1 ML: 223; TO: 191
4-2 ML: 445; TO: 184
4-3 ML: 102; TO: 172
4-4 ML: 21; TO: 292
Total ML: 791; TO: 841
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