The Hoboken Tax Reform Coalition
Hoboken Zoning Board and City Council
Does anyone know why the City Hall is hearing cases that were approved by the Hoboken Zoning Board? It doesn't make sense. I thought the Zoning board was made up of people who understand development, construction and variances. Is that not true? It seems like a waste to hear cases twice. Don't we trust the zoning board's decisions? I heard Stevens, a Newark St project and someone's 4-family brownstone construction is being heard by the council soon. Can anyone share some input on this, as I would like to understand the role of the Zoning board and what that has to do with the city council. Would seem to me that the City council should adhere to the zoning boards decisions and leave it to trained professionals. (They are trained-correct?)
Lastly, what requirements does it take to become a potential member of the Zoning Board? I promise this is not an attack or political question and just that --- a simple question as I do not know.
Thanks, David
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by FAP on -
"Does anyone know why the City Hall is hearing cases that were approved by the Hoboken Zoning Board?"
Because the law allows direct appeals to the City Council.
"It doesn't make sense."
It's the Law.
"I thought the Zoning board was made up of people who understand development, construction and variances. Is that not true?"
Not necessarily. Dave Roberts and Russo before him packed the zoning board with people who would approve nearly any variance. Peter Cammerano was going to use his zoning appointment power to sell zoning to people who would give him bribes. It was Dawn and the new reform council that took the power to appoint zoning board members away from the mayor and put it in the hands of the elected City Council.
"It seems like a waste to hear cases twice. Don't we trust the zoning board's decisions?"
Would you trust a decision made by people who were appointed by a man who sold zoning or who was less than competent?
"Would seem to me that the City council should adhere to the zoning board’s decisions and leave it to trained professionals. (They are trained-correct?)"
I don't think they have special training. The have use of a lwayer and whatever skills they have from life. That's why appointing good people is so important.
"Lastly, what requirements does it take to become a potential member of the Zoning Board?"
Well it used to be a penchant for approving applications. Now it's whatever criteria the elected City Council wishes to use. They vote on the appointments at open meetings so if you don't like the choice you can ask the to explain their reasoning. I do think there is a residency requirement though.
"I promise this is not an attack or political question and just that --- a simple question as I do not know."
My response was a lot more interesting before I read this. :)
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Permalink Reply by David A. Liebler on -
That's good information!
Who was on the zoning board last year vs. this year? This new board, how can we find out what they stand for. I can appreciate the need for a city council member vote, to be on the zoning board as that makes a lot of sense.
I am curious to know about the zoning boards feelings on the waterfront development, open space, new development, renovations etc.....
Lisa, Dominic Regular Member Dec. 29, 2005 Dec. 31, 2011 Four Years
Vacant 1st Alternate Jan. 01, 2010 Dec. 31, 2011 Two Years
Evers, Michael 2nd Alternate Dec. 16, 2010 Dec. 31, 2010 Two years
Fusco, Morris Regular Member Jan. 01, 2009 Dec. 31, 2012 Four Years
Soares, Anthony Chairman Oct. 21, 2009 Dec. 31, 2010 Four Years
Aibel, James Vice Chairman Jan. 01, 2010 Dec. 31, 2013 Four Years
Pincus, Nancy Regular Member Jan. 01, 2010 Dec. 31, 2013 Four Years
Crimmins, Joseph Regular Member April. 20, 2007 Dec. 31, 2010 Four Years
Cohen, Philip Regular Member Jan. 01, 2009 Dec. 31, 2012 Four Years
Vacant 3rd Alternate Two Years
Vacant
What do all these people do for a living and why is there not some type of certification process or bare min requirements. Shouldn't these people know something about property issues?
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Permalink Reply by FAP on
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The best way to find out is to go to a Zoning Board meeting and ask them.
David A. Liebler said:That's good information!
Who was on the zoning board last year vs. this year? This new board, how can we find out what they stand for. I can appreciate the need for a city council member vote, to be on the zoning board as that makes a lot of sense.
I am curious to know about the zoning boards feelings on the waterfront development, open space, new development, renovations etc.....
Lisa, Dominic Regular Member Dec. 29, 2005 Dec. 31, 2011 Four Years
Vacant 1st Alternate Jan. 01, 2010 Dec. 31, 2011 Two Years
Evers, Michael 2nd Alternate Dec. 16, 2010 Dec. 31, 2010 Two years
Fusco, Morris Regular Member Jan. 01, 2009 Dec. 31, 2012 Four Years
Soares, Anthony Chairman Oct. 21, 2009 Dec. 31, 2010 Four Years
Aibel, James Vice Chairman Jan. 01, 2010 Dec. 31, 2013 Four Years
Pincus, Nancy Regular Member Jan. 01, 2010 Dec. 31, 2013 Four Years
Crimmins, Joseph Regular Member April. 20, 2007 Dec. 31, 2010 Four Years
Cohen, Philip Regular Member Jan. 01, 2009 Dec. 31, 2012 Four Years
Vacant 3rd Alternate Two Years
Vacant
What do all these people do for a living and why is there not some type of certification process or bare min requirements. Shouldn't these people know something about property issues?
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Permalink Reply by SmartyJones on -
David,
Mile Square View profiled the new appointees. You can read more by just doing a quick search at the site.
Some of the pieces are written and some were submitted by the candidates themselves.
It's not a stretch to say the professional quotient has been elevated across the board, pardon the pun.
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Permalink Reply by Elizabeth Markevitch on -
Zoning board members are not trained. They are supposed to be knowledgeable about the community.
So if a developer has a witness saying a project will not add to traffic because they did a study at 3pm .The board’s has knowledge of Hoboken and knows that that is not a high traffic time in Hoboken and therefore not a good time to monitor traffic
This board has the authority to grant variances to approved zoning regulations voted on by city council.
The board has been granting a large number of D variances.
D-Variances are only supposed to be allowed if they contribute to the public good.
An approval of D-variance may be repealed by the City council
The Stevens project has 19 variances which is tantamount to the board usurping the Master plan and the laws voted on by the City Council.
One area of concern is Stevens plan to widen the road thereby making it easier to speed around on Sinatra Drive. Since all of Hoboken is a city and subject to 25 mph. In order to ensure the safety of our citizen’s , changes to roads must be given careful consideration.
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Permalink Reply by David A. Liebler on
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Makes a lot of sense. Thank you
Seems to me that Stevens should build more on the hill.
Elizabeth Markevitch said:Zoning board members are not trained. They are supposed to be knowledgeable about the community.
So if a developer has a witness saying a project will not add to traffic because they did a study at 3pm .The board’s has knowledge of Hoboken and knows that that is not a high traffic time in Hoboken and therefore not a good time to monitor traffic
This board has the authority to grant variances to approved zoning regulations voted on by city council.
The board has been granting a large number of D variances.
D-Variances are only supposed to be allowed if they contribute to the public good.
An approval of D-variance may be repealed by the City council
The Stevens project has 19 variances which is tantamount to the board usurping the Master plan and the laws voted on by the City Council.
One area of concern is Stevens plan to widen the road thereby making it easier to speed around on Sinatra Drive. Since all of Hoboken is a city and subject to 25 mph. In order to ensure the safety of our citizen’s , changes to roads must be given careful consideration.
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Permalink Reply by FAP on
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Liz the master Plan can't be usurped because the zoning for the master plan was never voted on. The master plan is little more than a pretty picture unless the zoning is adopted.
Elizabeth Markevitch said:Zoning board members are not trained. They are supposed to be knowledgeable about the community.
So if a developer has a witness saying a project will not add to traffic because they did a study at 3pm .The board’s has knowledge of Hoboken and knows that that is not a high traffic time in Hoboken and therefore not a good time to monitor traffic
This board has the authority to grant variances to approved zoning regulations voted on by city council.
The board has been granting a large number of D variances.
D-Variances are only supposed to be allowed if they contribute to the public good.
An approval of D-variance may be repealed by the City council
The Stevens project has 19 variances which is tantamount to the board usurping the Master plan and the laws voted on by the City Council.
One area of concern is Stevens plan to widen the road thereby making it easier to speed around on Sinatra Drive. Since all of Hoboken is a city and subject to 25 mph. In order to ensure the safety of our citizen’s , changes to roads must be given careful consideration.
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Permalink Reply by Jack Dawkins on
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D variances are only supposed to be approved if the applicant can demonstrate that granting the variance causes 'no harm to the public'
Elizabeth Markevitch said:Zoning board members are not trained. They are supposed to be knowledgeable about the community.
So if a developer has a witness saying a project will not add to traffic because they did a study at 3pm .The board’s has knowledge of Hoboken and knows that that is not a high traffic time in Hoboken and therefore not a good time to monitor traffic
This board has the authority to grant variances to approved zoning regulations voted on by city council.
The board has been granting a large number of D variances.
D-Variances are only supposed to be allowed if they contribute to the public good.
An approval of D-variance may be repealed by the City council
The Stevens project has 19 variances which is tantamount to the board usurping the Master plan and the laws voted on by the City Council.
One area of concern is Stevens plan to widen the road thereby making it easier to speed around on Sinatra Drive. Since all of Hoboken is a city and subject to 25 mph. In order to ensure the safety of our citizen’s , changes to roads must be given careful consideration.
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Permalink Reply by Elizabeth Markevitch on
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D(1) use variances are divided into two categories. The first category is variances in which the proposed use is inherently beneficial. Inherently beneficial uses are generally institutional, such as schools, hospitals, and housing projects. in such cases, it is the general welfare of the community itself that constitutes the "special reason"..
Variances for those uses that are not inherently beneficial, i.e. commercial use variances, fall into the second category of d(1) variance. An applicant seeking to demonstrate a special reason for a commercial-use variance must show that the use promotes the general welfare because the proposed site is particularly suitable for the proposed use.
Alternatively, the special reason standard can also be addressed by proof of undue hardship, i.e., that the property cannot reasonably be developed with a conforming use (or the inutility of the property for any of the permitted uses).
An applicant for a d(1) use variance must still satisfy the two prongs of Section 70d's negative criteria test. in order to determine whether an applicant has met the first prong, that the variance may be granted without substantial detriment to the public good, the board must weigh the benefits and harms of each particular application. the benefits and harms of each application must be weighed regardless of whether or not the use is inherently beneficial,/body>
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Permalink Reply by Elizabeth Markevitch on
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The masterplan is often used in discussing the intent and clarification on ordinances that have been passed by the City council. I have heard it cited in numerous cases argued before the zoning board and in courts of law for local and state courts
The role of planning versus zoning became a major thread of land use law in the 20th century. Which had priority, planning or zoning? Generally, it was assumed the Comprehensive Plan (otherwise called the Master Plan or General Plan) had priority, and land use regulations were created to implement the plan. This made rational sense, for the characteristics of the Comprehensive Plan included the following:
1. Plan for the physical development of a community
2. Be future oriented
3. Be geographically and functionally comprehensive
4. Include land use, public facilities, and circulation elements
This presumption of primacy of the Master Plan has been established through court cases, and establishes a firm basis for regulation through zoning.
http://www.emich.edu/public/geo/557book/c133.versus.html
FAP said:Liz the master Plan can't be usurped because the zoning for the master plan was never voted on. The master plan is little more than a pretty picture unless the zoning is adopted.
Elizabeth Markevitch said:Zoning board members are not trained. They are supposed to be knowledgeable about the community.
So if a developer has a witness saying a project will not add to traffic because they did a study at 3pm .The board’s has knowledge of Hoboken and knows that that is not a high traffic time in Hoboken and therefore not a good time to monitor traffic
This board has the authority to grant variances to approved zoning regulations voted on by city council.
The board has been granting a large number of D variances.
D-Variances are only supposed to be allowed if they contribute to the public good.
An approval of D-variance may be repealed by the City council
The Stevens project has 19 variances which is tantamount to the board usurping the Master plan and the laws voted on by the City Council.
One area of concern is Stevens plan to widen the road thereby making it easier to speed around on Sinatra Drive. Since all of Hoboken is a city and subject to 25 mph. In order to ensure the safety of our citizen’s , changes to roads must be given careful consideration.
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Permalink Reply by James Vance on
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As usual, Liz Markevitch has again done a credible job of explaining how our local government works or doesn't work, which is more often the case. Her understanding of the many facets of the system is quite remarkable.
To add to the discussion, I would like to share a letter I wrote to Councilman Bhall after he suggested the law be changed so as to preclude an objector from appealing an unfavorable ruling of the zoning board of adjustment to the city council. I believe his concerns centered on these appeals adding to the already heavy load carried by the council.
One must keep in mind; both the applicant and the objector can appeal to the courts. But only an objector has the option of appealing to the city council. My letter follows:
Although we heard your concerns, I and others were troubled when you urged your colleagues to change the law so that objectors will no longer be able to appeal Zoning Board of Adjustment decisions to the city council. Yes, the previous board was packed with Roberts' cronies and the council had a majority who turned a blind eye to out-of-control development. One could not receive a fair hearing there and was left with only one choice, the courts. But the onerous cost of appealing to the courts caused many objectors to simply walk away, defeated by the cost and disgusted with the system. This along with many ill conceived redevelopment projects has left the city with the outrageous development you see all around town and its many associated problems.
Now comes a new city council composed of people who won by promising to act in the best interest of the citizens. The aggrieved come to you for relief believing a fair hearing can at last be had before our elected officials.
Yes, hearing such appeals is burdensome especially in light of the thorough job you and your colleagues are doing with the budget and the time you must spend on other challenging issues. But because "The Mayor and City Council have and continue to appoint competent individuals" to this and other boards, we expect the ZBA will no longer do the bidding of big-deal developers and corrupt politicians. Instead the zoning board will act in a responsible manner and the flood of appeals you fear will not materialize.
But board members once appointed answer to no one. So if the new board fails to act as we expect it to, your legislation will have cut us off from appealing to our elected representatives, the ones responsible for the board’s composition. Instead, we will again be placed in the position of either expending thousands of our own dollars to go before unelected judges unaffected by their decisions or to again leave the field, once more defeated by the cost and disgusted with the system.
For these reasons and others, I ask you to reconsider your position and leave well enough alone.
I hope my sharing this information is helpful. Jim Vance
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Permalink Reply by Jack Dawkins on
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Excellent letter, Jim;
I completely agree with everything you stated.
I've heard through the town "scuttle-but" that Mr. Bhalla has reconsidered his position. I think a letter such as your contributed, in no small measure, to Mr. Bhalla reconsidering.
James Vance said:As usual, Liz Markevitch has again done a credible job of explaining how our local government works or doesn't work, which is more often the case. Her understanding of the many facets of the system is quite remarkable.
To add to the discussion, I would like to share a letter I wrote to Councilman Bhall after he suggested the law be changed so as to preclude an objector from appealing an unfavorable ruling of the zoning board of adjustment to the city council. I believe his concerns centered on these appeals adding to the already heavy load carried by the council.
One must keep in mind; both the applicant and the objector can appeal to the courts. But only an objector has the option of appealing to the city council. My letter follows:
Although we heard your concerns, I and others were troubled when you urged your colleagues to change the law so that objectors will no longer be able to appeal Zoning Board of Adjustment decisions to the city council. Yes, the previous board was packed with Roberts' cronies and the council had a majority who turned a blind eye to out-of-control development. One could not receive a fair hearing there and was left with only one choice, the courts. But the onerous cost of appealing to the courts caused many objectors to simply walk away, defeated by the cost and disgusted with the system. This along with many ill conceived redevelopment projects has left the city with the outrageous development you see all around town and its many associated problems.
Now comes a new city council composed of people who won by promising to act in the best interest of the citizens. The aggrieved come to you for relief believing a fair hearing can at last be had before our elected officials.
Yes, hearing such appeals is burdensome especially in light of the thorough job you and your colleagues are doing with the budget and the time you must spend on other challenging issues. But because "The Mayor and City Council have and continue to appoint competent individuals" to this and other boards, we expect the ZBA will no longer do the bidding of big-deal developers and corrupt politicians. Instead the zoning board will act in a responsible manner and the flood of appeals you fear will not materialize.
But board members once appointed answer to no one. So if the new board fails to act as we expect it to, your legislation will have cut us off from appealing to our elected representatives, the ones responsible for the board’s composition. Instead, we will again be placed in the position of either expending thousands of our own dollars to go before unelected judges unaffected by their decisions or to again leave the field, once more defeated by the cost and disgusted with the system.
For these reasons and others, I ask you to reconsider your position and leave well enough alone.
I hope my sharing this information is helpful. Jim Vance
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