The Hoboken Tax Reform Coalition
COUNCIL TO VOTE ON POLICE RAISES WEDNESDAY
VERY IMPORTANT CITY COUNCIL MEETING THIS WEDNESDAY MARCH 17th 7PM CITY HALL!
The City Council will be voting on the proposed terms of the Memorandum of
Understanding (MOU) for the PBA and PSOA Police contracts THIS
Wednesday at 7pm at City Hall. Details of the contracts can be found
on the city site or by clicking on the links below. We respect the
hard work of our local public safety officials, but it is our opinion
that Hoboken can not afford to pay the raise increases the union is
seeking. The 2009 audit of the Hoboken Police Department and state commissioned
investigation titled "The Beat Goes On" are proof that major reform is
necessary! Voting NO on these contracts is the first step.
We encourage ALL members of Hoboken Revolt to attend this Wednesday's council meeting and demand these contracts be voted down!
Many of you feel strongly about real reform and tax cuts and it is
important to be at the meeting, rather than watching the proceedings on
TV or Online at home. We need a big attendance on Wednesday night to show the
council, the cameras, the media and Governor Christie that the
taxpayers of Hoboken want action now.
Love Your Town. Be Present. Come to the meeting!
http://hobokennj.org/docs/council/Hoboken-PSOA-MOU-signed-2010.pdf
http://hobokennj.org/docs/council/Hoboken-PBA-MOU-signed-2010.pdf
The City Council will be voting on the proposed terms of the Memorandum of
Understanding (MOU) for the PBA and PSOA Police contracts THIS
Wednesday at 7pm at City Hall. Details of the contracts can be found
on the city site or by clicking on the links below. We respect the
hard work of our local public safety officials, but it is our opinion
that Hoboken can not afford to pay the raise increases the union is
seeking. The 2009 audit of the Hoboken Police Department and state commissioned
investigation titled "The Beat Goes On" are proof that major reform is
necessary! Voting NO on these contracts is the first step.
We encourage ALL members of Hoboken Revolt to attend this Wednesday's council meeting and demand these contracts be voted down!
Many of you feel strongly about real reform and tax cuts and it is
important to be at the meeting, rather than watching the proceedings on
TV or Online at home. We need a big attendance on Wednesday night to show the
council, the cameras, the media and Governor Christie that the
taxpayers of Hoboken want action now.
Love Your Town. Be Present. Come to the meeting!
http://hobokennj.org/docs/council/Hoboken-PSOA-MOU-signed-2010.pdf
http://hobokennj.org/docs/council/Hoboken-PBA-MOU-signed-2010.pdf
Tags: contracts, council, police, raises
Views: 0
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Dave on -
A contract does not only consist of raises. The contract contains a significant amount of givebacks and should be looked at seriously. Unfortunately the main point that stands out is the money. The city WILL NOT get nearly as many givebacks in arbitration. Considering the pending agreement of the Jersey City Police Department and the deals already in place throughout the county, the proposed raises are not extreme and may actually be larger when an arbitration award is announced. Like I said, the contract should not be written off and should be looked at carefully. By the way, I am aware that my statement will not be well received and that's ok. Thanks for listening.
-
Permalink Reply by FAP on
-
Dave well recieved is not the word for it, bemused would be more accurate.
Have you read ANY recent perc decisions? They're online and I suggest you do. The givebacks other Unions are seeing from arbitration are much higher than a palatry 5 to 10 dollar copay. We're talking 600 a year to 1.5% of their salary in health care costs paid by union members. Recent perc decisions have higher copays than what Judy suggested, other police forces work a 40 hour, 7 day week while ours works a 35 hour, 7 day week.
If the union wants a 12% raise in a down economy it better be prepared to make game changing givebacks.
Dave said:A contract does not only consist of raises. The contract contains a significant amount of givebacks and should be looked at seriously. Unfortunately the main point that stands out is the money. The city WILL NOT get nearly as many givebacks in arbitration. Considering the pending agreement of the Jersey City Police Department and the deals already in place throughout the county, the proposed raises are not extreme and may actually be larger when an arbitration award is announced. Like I said, the contract should not be written off and should be looked at carefully. By the way, I am aware that my statement will not be well received and that's ok. Thanks for listening.
-
Permalink Reply by Dave on
-
There are more givebacks then just copays. For instance, there is a major change to the department's terminal leave policy which is unprecendented, the change in health care coverage alone will save the city over two million dollars, changes in special vacation days and of course the limitation of two years of accrued vacation as opposed to three. As far as perc decisions go, no arbitrator will rule in favor for the all of the above changes. The 1.5% health care cost item is going to happen because of state law and even that is iffy. We are assuming that the state, which by the way is not the direct employer of municipal employees has the authority to make a change like that at the municipal level without being challenged legally. Oh and by the way, the 35 hour work week thing is completely inaccurate. One of the many flaws in the illustrious audit, it is not a 35 hours, 7 day work week. In fact, the police work what they consider an 8 day work for rotation purposes and work 8 hours and 25 minutes each of those days. The 25 minutes a day come from the ten minutes they are mandated to be at work before there shift for assignment purposes and the 15 minutes after there shift that they are expected to be available before overtime begins. That's 42 hours and 5 minutes a week. All these points are mute because this has become more of a political battle then one filled with substance. The contract will be voted down, the unions will file for arbitration, eventually two years from now there is a perc decision on the matter and the city will be issued two bills. One for the retroactive pay due the police department and one to pay for the lawyers arguing the matter.
FAP said:Dave well recieved is not the word for it, bemused would be more accurate.
Have you read ANY recent perc decisions? They're online and I suggest you do. The givebacks other Unions are seeing from arbitration are much higher than a palatry 5 to 10 dollar copay. We're talking 600 a year to 1.5% of their salary in health care costs paid by union members. Recent perc decisions have higher copays than what Judy suggested, other police forces work a 40 hour, 7 day week while ours works a 35 hour, 7 day week.
If the union wants a 12% raise in a down economy it better be prepared to make game changing givebacks.
Dave said:A contract does not only consist of raises. The contract contains a significant amount of givebacks and should be looked at seriously. Unfortunately the main point that stands out is the money. The city WILL NOT get nearly as many givebacks in arbitration. Considering the pending agreement of the Jersey City Police Department and the deals already in place throughout the county, the proposed raises are not extreme and may actually be larger when an arbitration award is announced. Like I said, the contract should not be written off and should be looked at carefully. By the way, I am aware that my statement will not be well received and that's ok. Thanks for listening.
-
Permalink Reply by David on
-
Our goal, as a town, should be to have the necesary public safety. The audit is a police professional saying both our numbers and our benefits are beyond standard amounts necessary to protect Hoboken and attract qualified officers. I think our contract should hew closer to the audit recommendation (eg 40 hour work week not 35 or 37) than the current MOUs. In this economic environment I don't see how we even have a choice.
The contract will be up in about a year, if we find that the town is having trouble getting good officers that time period is not so long that we can't easily tweak compensation the other way.
Dave said:There are more givebacks then just copays. For instance, there is a major change to the department's terminal leave policy which is unprecendented, the change in health care coverage alone will save the city over two million dollars, changes in special vacation days and of course the limitation of two years of accrued vacation as opposed to three. As far as perc decisions go, no arbitrator will rule in favor for the all of the above changes. The 1.5% health care cost item is going to happen because of state law and even that is iffy. We are assuming that the state, which by the way is not the direct employer of municipal employees has the authority to make a change like that at the municipal level without being challenged legally. Oh and by the way, the 35 hour work week thing is completely inaccurate. One of the many flaws in the illustrious audit, it is not a 35 hours, 7 day work week. In fact, the police work what they consider an 8 day work for rotation purposes and work 8 hours and 25 minutes each of those days. The 25 minutes a day come from the ten minutes they are mandated to be at work before there shift for assignment purposes and the 15 minutes after there shift that they are expected to be available before overtime begins. That's 42 hours and 5 minutes a week. All these points are mute because this has become more of a political battle then one filled with substance. The contract will be voted down, the unions will file for arbitration, eventually two years from now there is a perc decision on the matter and the city will be issued two bills. One for the retroactive pay due the police department and one to pay for the lawyers arguing the matter.
FAP said:
-
Permalink Reply by Gene on
-
I suggest everyone from Revolt get to City Hall early for the meeting. As usual the cops and firemen will jam the hall.
For those who do not think some changes are necessary in our contracts with our municipal workers; let's realize that 15,000,000 workers in America are now unemployed and a lot of those still employed are making a lot less.
This city and state, like hundreds of states and towns across the country, have seen the "well run dry."
So far our municipal employees have felt no pain and apparently have no intention of cooperating in saving this city.
The facts are evident; federal, state and municipal workers get more pay, tremendously better benefits, better pensions etc. the facts are simple; the city and this state can no longer afford these luxuries. Everyone has to take part in shared sacrifice; the alternative is bankruptcy for these entities.
The Feds can keep spending like crazy people because they can print money, so far Hoboken cannot.
-
Permalink Reply by FAP on
-
David I have a question. Given that there is a fixed dollar amount we can afford yearly for public safety why does the union expect not to see deeper layoffs if they get a large raise and don't help find a way to significantly cut their rising health costs?
I think the problem is the bennies they've grown accustomed to have become very expensive and since public salaries are now largely in line with the private sector this throws their total compensation way above private sector equivalents. The rubber is meeting the road in Hoboken and the State as a whole. I don't think anyone is ready for what this means.
-
Permalink Reply by David on
-
Good question. My understanding is that long timers know the union rules protect them, and they are willing to let more recent hires go.
This past summer, I didn't see any officer offer to take cuts to protect the 16 officers let go by Judy (eventually rescinded) . I don't expect any action for future layoffs.
FAP said:David I have a question. Given that there is a fixed dollar amount we can afford yearly for public safety why does the union expect not to see deeper layoffs if they get a large raise and don't help find a way to significantly cut their rising health costs?
I think the problem is the bennies they've grown accustomed to have become very expensive and since public salaries are now largely in line with the private sector this throws their total compensation way above private sector equivalents. The rubber is meeting the road in Hoboken and the State as a whole. I don't think anyone is ready for what this means.
-
Permalink Reply by FAP on
-
Got any more whoppers? The Union has packed every meeting where compensation has been discussed. They'll be there tomorrow in force.
upfront said:what planet do you live on gene. The only people who will jamthe meeting is the revolt members or a select few cause they like to complain about everything, YET, No revolt member is holding this current administration accountable for anything. Pre election had many statements and PROMISES, post election has revealed city hand outs in terms of jobs, NO TAX CUT, alledged conflcits of interest, and a multitude of other items which are to long to mention. One thing is for certain, the circus is still in town with a different cast. If you vote this down, I see arbitration giving alot more and taking alot less and forget what F.A.P states cause he is in no mans land with respect to where he is getting his info from. Dave hit it right on the head, your gettign back more then you normally would had for a modest or low end modest raise.
Gene said:I suggest everyone from Revolt get to City Hall early for the meeting. As usual the cops and firemen will jam the hall.
For those who do not think some changes are necessary in our contracts with our municipal workers; let's realize that 15,000,000 workers in America are now unemployed and a lot of those still employed are making a lot less.
This city and state, like hundreds of states and towns across the country, have seen the "well run dry."
So far our municipal employees have felt no pain and apparently have no intention of cooperating in saving this city.
The facts are evident; federal, state and municipal workers get more pay, tremendously better benefits, better pensions etc. the facts are simple; the city and this state can no longer afford these luxuries. Everyone has to take part in shared sacrifice; the alternative is bankruptcy for these entities.
The Feds can keep spending like crazy people because they can print money, so far Hoboken cannot.
-
Permalink Reply by Overtaxed on
-
I expect the council to vote NO for this contract that was negotiated by Judy Tripody on no one's behalf.
-
Permalink Reply by Overtaxed on
-
Upfront, I certainly agree with you on this one: 'most politicians are frauds'. I just hope that Zimmer's slate is not a fraud, as KidsFirst turned out to be!
Cheers and see you all at the council meeting!
-
Permalink Reply by Dave Kaplan on
-
I hold the administration responsible for tax cuts.
To that end, THIS IS where tax cuts come from. 90+% of the budget is in personnel compensation. I will hold the administration accountable if they don't right-size our PD, as suggested by the independent audit.
I have no problem if this contract goes to arbitration, if the union is unwilling to take a pay cut for the good of public safety, and in light of the economy.
Any arbitration will at a minimum lead to the concessions that are going to be passed by the State Assembly next week by both Democrats and Republicans. This time, it is the politicians of both parties that are in the right. Time for the union to listen.
upfront said:what planet do you live on gene. The only people who will jamthe meeting is the revolt members or a select few cause they like to complain about everything, YET, No revolt member is holding this current administration accountable for anything. Pre election had many statements and PROMISES, post election has revealed city hand outs in terms of jobs, NO TAX CUT, alledged conflcits of interest, and a multitude of other items which are to long to mention. One thing is for certain, the circus is still in town with a different cast. If you vote this down, I see arbitration giving alot more and taking alot less and forget what F.A.P states cause he is in no mans land with respect to where he is getting his info from. Dave hit it right on the head, your gettign back more then you normally would had for a modest or low end modest raise.
Gene said:I suggest everyone from Revolt get to City Hall early for the meeting. As usual the cops and firemen will jam the hall.
For those who do not think some changes are necessary in our contracts with our municipal workers; let's realize that 15,000,000 workers in America are now unemployed and a lot of those still employed are making a lot less.
This city and state, like hundreds of states and towns across the country, have seen the "well run dry."
So far our municipal employees have felt no pain and apparently have no intention of cooperating in saving this city.
The facts are evident; federal, state and municipal workers get more pay, tremendously better benefits, better pensions etc. the facts are simple; the city and this state can no longer afford these luxuries. Everyone has to take part in shared sacrifice; the alternative is bankruptcy for these entities.
The Feds can keep spending like crazy people because they can print money, so far Hoboken cannot.
-
Permalink Reply by Dave Kaplan on
-
The state auditor hired an independent party to conduct an audit. There is no evidence that anything that the conclusions reached by this expert were incorrect.
Saying "I know those numbers and that persons facts were WRONG, DEAD WRONG," isn't going to cut it anymore in this town, especially when it flies in the face of an independently conducted audit by the state.
As for the arbitration process. It is going to change, via action at the state level that will again be bipartisian. I am prepared to take the chances that the state will make the process a fairer one, and therefore to let this contract go to arbitration.
upfront said:Dave,
The changes by the democrats and republicans are prospective. Furthermore, you are getting the PD out of traditional which is a major cost driver. To not approve that and go to arbitration, an arbitrator will not change their health care if they will have to contribute 1.5% to it so in essence the major savings you would have gotten, you will no longer have such. Also, after reading that audit my first thought was to have another on done. Being from Hoboken all my life even I know those numbers and that persons facts were WRONG, DEAD WRONG.
Dave Kaplan said:I hold the administration responsible for tax cuts.
To that end, THIS IS where tax cuts come from. 90+% of the budget is in personnel compensation. I will hold the administration accountable if they don't right-size our PD, as suggested by the independent audit.
I have no problem if this contract goes to arbitration, if the union is unwilling to take a pay cut for the good of public safety, and in light of the economy.
Any arbitration will at a minimum lead to the concessions that are going to be passed by the State Assembly next week by both Democrats and Republicans. This time, it is the politicians of both parties that are in the right. Time for the union to listen.
upfront said:what planet do you live on gene. The only people who will jamthe meeting is the revolt members or a select few cause they like to complain about everything, YET, No revolt member is holding this current administration accountable for anything. Pre election had many statements and PROMISES, post election has revealed city hand outs in terms of jobs, NO TAX CUT, alledged conflcits of interest, and a multitude of other items which are to long to mention. One thing is for certain, the circus is still in town with a different cast. If you vote this down, I see arbitration giving alot more and taking alot less and forget what F.A.P states cause he is in no mans land with respect to where he is getting his info from. Dave hit it right on the head, your gettign back more then you normally would had for a modest or low end modest raise.
Gene said:I suggest everyone from Revolt get to City Hall early for the meeting. As usual the cops and firemen will jam the hall.
For those who do not think some changes are necessary in our contracts with our municipal workers; let's realize that 15,000,000 workers in America are now unemployed and a lot of those still employed are making a lot less.
This city and state, like hundreds of states and towns across the country, have seen the "well run dry."
So far our municipal employees have felt no pain and apparently have no intention of cooperating in saving this city.
The facts are evident; federal, state and municipal workers get more pay, tremendously better benefits, better pensions etc. the facts are simple; the city and this state can no longer afford these luxuries. Everyone has to take part in shared sacrifice; the alternative is bankruptcy for these entities.
The Feds can keep spending like crazy people because they can print money, so far Hoboken cannot.
© 2012 Created by Administrator.
Powered by 
.
